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Porn in My deviantART?

Journal Entry: Thu Sep 23, 2010, 10:19 AM


Obscenity and Art

deviantART does not allow the submission of pornographic content, however portions of the community have traditionally had a tendency to be confused on the exact definition and what is or is not allowed and why, leading many to continue to report things which fit their own personal viewpoints; today I will again attempt to clarify things.


It’s All in the Details

It was about a year ago that I posted a news article which attempted to clarify why and how official policy and community viewpoint can differ so greatly in regards to what can be considered to be obscene or pornographic and I even spoke about it a bit in my journal.

Much of what was written in that previous article holds true today so I will only briefly outline the basics of what was written there in this article and I would urge any who haven’t yet read it to do so.

Recently there has been a lot of dissatisfaction being voiced concerning types of content which is allowed in the deviantART galleries and almost an equal amount of misinformation and other incorrect assumptions about what is allowed and what gets removed.

Much of the discontent in this area stems from the differences between official definitions and policy and the individual viewpoints held by members of the community.

In the past we, the staff, have tried to address these differences by amending the FAQ with clearer language, posting journals and news articles trying to explain this nuance or that definition but regardless of those efforts there continue to be misinterpretations and misunderstandings so in this particular news article instead of trying to explain the various policies and procedures I’ll attempt to explain the reasoning and viewpoint which exists behind those policies and procedures.


Provoking a Response

In the 1971 case of Cohen v. California, United states Supreme Court Justice Marshall Harlan II summarized exactly how subjective “artistic merit” can be when he stated, “one man’s vulgarity is another’s lyric” and that statement remains true to this day.

Art is intended to be evocative, and given that works of art so often succeed in evoking such diverse and passionate responses it is not surprising at all that artistic expression is often the target of so many censorship efforts. Post-modern art, for example, derives its value from defying past standards and expanding the traditional boundaries of art, often by deliberately attempting to shock and offend the audience.

Even here at deviantART, a community founded on the concept of being a gathering place for all sorts of creative persons and artistic visions, there is a certain level of censorship. deviantART does restrict the submission of certain types of content – some for critical legal reasons and some for what could be called completely arbitrary reasons which we have made because of our concerns about the health and direction of the community.

Because the concept of being a community which is intended to welcome all sorts of creative endeavors while at the same time denying access to certain content and themes are so at odds with each other we make every attempt to keep our restrictions to the barest minimum. If it appears at times that we appear to make exceptions for certain types of works it is because we are trying to find more reasons to keep a work than to remove a work; a fact which results in probably too many of you in the community assuming in error that our staff is poorly trained, biased, or lazy.

We make every attempt to allow works which are evocative and this sometimes means that a work will be erotic and sexual enough, or political enough, or religious enough, to offend someone with more delicate sensibilities. This is the main reason our mature content tagging system exists and why we’ve made improvements to it over the years to help artists warn their audience that a certain work might be offensive to them.


The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

The type of content which generates the most concern and the most complaints tends to be photographic nude works which are considered inartistic by the people doing the complaining, some even going as far as to quote the three standards for determining obscenity set by the United States Supreme Court in 1973, one of which states that an obscene work “taken as whole, lacks serious literary, political, or scientific value” as justification for asking for the removal of the deviations they find offensive.

Unfortunately the determination of “serious literary, political, or scientific value” is not as clear cut and easy as one could assume. As I’ve stated elsewhere, “artistic value” and “obscenity” varies greatly depending on your cultural and family upbringing as well as your personal viewpoints. The question of whose standards to use is difficult at best which is why official policy on the matter is written to address quantitative facts about a work rather than the qualities of the work.

There was a case which demonstrates exactly how hazy the term “value” can be when applied to art which I’d like to relate to the readers here for greater clarity.

In 1969, United States Customs agents in Baltimore Maryland seized ten paintings and drawings which had been shipped in from Europe for an exhibition in the United States. The works were a portion of a larger collection of erotic artworks which had been previously shown and displayed in museums in Scandinavia. Among the ten works seized were works by Hans Bellmer, George Grosz, Karel Appel, Melle, Cesare Peverelli, and five other works by artists whose identities were unknown.

The Customs agents seized the works under the authority of a federal law which prohibited the importation of obscene materials The ten works seized included themes which were explicit in their showing of male and female sex organs, sometimes in conjunction or approaching conjunction and the agents judged that the various themes were sexual and obscene enough to stop their entry into the United States.

The issue involving these works eventually received a legal ruling, and although the case was decided before Miller v. California (the ruling which determined the obscenity standards still used today) the court applied a similar three-part standard to determine whether or not the works were to be ruled as obscene. Despite the clearly sexual content of the works, both the trial court and the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals found that the works all had artistic value and therefore did not meet the third legal criterion of obscenity.

Now I mention this particular case not because we use it to justify keeping certain works but because it demonstrates how individual judgments concerning “values” can reach completely different conclusions and it is because of  these differences in personal judgment that deviantART policies rely more upon empirical observations about a work rather than personal opinions concerning artistic value and intent – by relying more upon the former we are able to ensure greater consistency in the actions taken, or not taken, by our staff.

While members of our community are certainly free to call something obscene because, “I know it when I see it” (Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart, 1964), our staff tries to avoid involving such personal and ultimately subjective observations in our policy decisions, even though they may completely agree with you on a personal level.

When you think about it in a broader sense when we talk about “artistic value” we must also consider that not all artistic works are intended to be aesthetic or even fully interpretable which in turn can spark an entirely different conversation about exactly what “art” is supposed to be in the first place – who gets to make that decision?


  • Mood: Content

Add a Comment:
 
:iconshanetherarechoa:
shanetherarechoa Featured By Owner Feb 17, 2014  Student General Artist
Reailty, I have a question on this what if someone has literature porn? 

Like made in a journal or something is it able to be posted to inquiry depending on content of it or no? 
Reply
:iconfrodoprime:
FrodoPrime Featured By Owner Oct 12, 2011  Hobbyist Photographer
As long as the work is correctly labeled, except for child porn, there should be no restrictions; especially when it is improperly & discriminatingly applied - as there is so much more allowed pornographic female nudity allowed than male. Heaven forbid that an erection or mildly engorged penis is allowed but a spread eagle female shot is sanctioned
Reply
:iconiceofwolf:
iceofwolf Featured By Owner Apr 9, 2011  Hobbyist Writer
Great write-up (and I hope it's still accurate). It gave me hope for some of my more... explicit... literary work, which I still think has more artistic merit than pornographic. ;) I'd like to know if there's somewhere I could submit my work for approval prior to posting it so I can avoid being banned or leaving gaps in the narrative; there are about 20 or so chapters I've written and posted to another site I'd like to also share here.

I admit I haven't reviewed all the FAQs this site has to offer since actually becoming active (and not just an account-holder), but could someone point me in the right direction?
Reply
:iconheliotypos:
Heliotypos Featured By Owner Oct 16, 2010
I'm very very glad that DA is so open minded, it's a bright exception on the general trends of conservatism internationally, and mainly in the US. I wish you every success guys, you deserve it. Much more than that, you are HOPE.

The conversation about art is endeless. But, those puritan hypocrits, who are so much "harassed" by nudity, WHY ado they keep looking at nudes, artistic or not? Pathetic guys....
Reply
:icongashu-monsata:
Gashu-Monsata Featured By Owner Oct 14, 2010  Professional Digital Artist
I judge art like this on wheter it was made with a reason. For example, if you ask the artist, "Why did you take this image of boobs and upload it onto deviantART", and they answer something like "It was inspired by events... it is to raise awareness of... it's to appreciate the...", then that is "art". Obviously, the reasoning has to be genuine, haah XD

If they give a response such as "I don't know... I like boobs...they're sexy...", then that, in my eye, is pornographic, whether it be very mild, or very wild (teehee). It's all in the artists' intentions to me, I may be wrong, but that's how I see it :)
Reply
:iconrealitysquared:
realitysquared Featured By Owner Oct 15, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
On a personal level I'd agree with you completely, but on a policy level we do need to cut out those subjective opinions.
Reply
:iconglimpses2020:
glimpses2020 Featured By Owner Oct 6, 2010
Thank you realitysquared for showing violationsreporter the door out. This character had no redeeming value here on dA.

You sounded very sincere in your last two journals regarding Mature Content and from what I am seeing (vs. what I am not seeing...I don't see what gets banned) you and your staff are being considerate of our perceptions.
Reply
:icon32ko:
32ko Featured By Owner Sep 29, 2010
I think the real challenge is for the artist to make Artistic nudes worth their epithet, i.e. poetic (in the sense of creative) and singular (not industrial/commercial, repetitive, or technically sleek and dull).

It is more a matter of attitude, nuance and sensibility than simply one of content. Be it pornographic or artistic nudes as herein defined, there is always a risk of drifting towards sensationalism or emotional/carnal voyeurism, which mere empirical or graphic lines fail to control.
Reply
:iconmister-denial:
Mister-Denial Featured By Owner Sep 28, 2010  Hobbyist Photographer
I wish the dA staff good luck with an impossible task, making the artistic nude section of this website interesting again. I have been on dA for almost 7 years (old account) and have always been opposed to censorship as it has taken down many great artworks and artists. There was some really good work getting banned for being too explicit.

And I don't mind explicit.

When done tastefully.

But these days I hardly browse the artistic nudes anymore, because it has turned into an exhibitionist-o-rama of people who think iPhone shots of their body orifices has any artistic merit. I mean, one visit to the nude section, and I get to see more anuses and vaginas than all gynecologists and proctologists from my city. Probably my entire country. And let's not mention the army of shriveled wieners that make me believe I work in a lousy sausage factory.

It's out of control.

I am not upset by amateurs who might not deliver great images but try to, and eventually will improve with the help of the community. I am upset by those who abuse this platform in an effort to harvest comments "great ass / tits / cock I want to fuck / screw / ram unitl it bleeds / squirts cums" or whatever else these brilliant minds come up with.

There is so much free porn on the web. Why can't the exhibitionists go to one of the amateur galleries and show their hairy or razor-bumped genitalias there? And take the wankers with them to get their kicks.

Then the rest of us could actually return to enjoying art.
Reply
:iconpxx---4:
pxx---4 Featured By Owner May 16, 2011  Hobbyist General Artist
exactly! unfortunately DA doesn't seem to be able to address this problem.
Reply
:iconandromedarising:
AndromedaRising Featured By Owner Oct 15, 2010  Student General Artist
i love you.
Reply
:iconmister-denial:
Mister-Denial Featured By Owner Nov 17, 2010  Hobbyist Photographer
Ahhh thanks, come here and let me hug you! ;)
Reply
:iconandromedarising:
AndromedaRising Featured By Owner Nov 17, 2010  Student General Artist
*wanders over to be hugged* Yay!
Reply
:iconzaharaa:
Zaharaa Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2010
My opinion is that these sort of crotch/anus/erection shots are rubbishing an otherwise amazing site. If people want to post/view these kinds of images there are plenty of porn sites on the net. This however is an Art website. I think crotch/anus/bend over and flash your bits in the most revolting manner possible shots should be prohibited just as erect penis/masturbation images are banned. Thats my 2 cents worth. We must do something to clean up this site, its getting totally out of hand.
Reply
:icondannybillargent:
DannyBillArgent Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2010
I'm opposed to a special section for 'snapped' self nudes, I can only imagine it will invite more of the same.

I actually like art that pushes the boundaries, tests the rules, and I certainly don't mind if it is a bit rough around the edges in regard to technical ability. So until recently I let this whole debate pass me by.

But over the last few weeks I have been reading more of the comments on pictures and it appears that some of the members here are making no pretence at art what-so-ever, they are just using dA as an amateur porn site where they can hook up with people for cyber sex. As far as I know, this doesn't fall outside the rules.

If this is allowed to continue, let alone encouraged by giving it it's own section, I suspect dA will soon be overrun.

I understand that $chix0r that you are soliciting suggestions... mine would be that dA tackles this in a similar way that Google weeded out unwanted (but seemingly popular) sites. By assigning a trust value to members. A favourite or comment from a trusted member would pass trust to a new member. A report of a violation from a trusted member would carry more weight that a new member.
New members would have to reach a certain level of trust before they would be allowed to send/receive comments on mature content, or send/receive notes. Without the comments and notes, there would be far less incentive for 'cam-whoring' as they couldn't get the attention they crave or hook up with others.

Obviously, this wouldn't be an overnight fix, but I'd be prepared to wait for it as I think it the best solution.
Reply
:iconwhiteponyposed:
WhitePonyPosed Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2010  Professional Traditional Artist
My two cents: I agree with the comments that have been made regarding the creation of a separate category for the numerous "crotch shots" that seem to be flooding the artistic nude category lately. I personally don't see the "artistic" aspect of it - I just see "nude", and these are usually poorly-executed photographs to boot - BUT if someone wants to take penis/vagina/anus "snapshots", fine, go ahead, I won't try to stop them...but pleasepleaseplease don't let them post these quickie pics in the "artistic nude photography" section - owning a camera and a set of genitalia does not necessarily mean you are an artist.

"A category such as “nude scraps” “nude snapshots” to create some separation between the artistic collaborations and the genital / bend and spread snapshots would be a very beautiful thing "

THANK YOU polarimpress. You hit the nail on the head.
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:iconpolarextremesstudio:
PolarExtremesStudio Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2010  Professional Photographer
Hi

Tonight $chix0r suggested to me to leave a suggestion in comment form on this journal. $chix0r had a lengthy comment conversation on my news article - [link]

To keep my point clear and my suggestion memorable the article and the conversation with $chix0r was with one suggestion in mind, to create a separate category for photographic nudes other than “artistic nude” for the type of images that are best described as “the photo documentation of an exhibitionist / lusty lifestyle” rather than collaborations between photographers and models be they amateur / professional or hobbyist etc

The point of which is to separate images like this - [link]

From images like these - [link] and [link] and [link] and [link] and [link]

A category such as “nude scraps” “nude snapshots” to create some separation between the artistic collaborations and the genital / bend and spread snapshots would be a very beautiful thing

Thanks you for being available for comment
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:iconalejandrocaspe:
alejandrocaspe Featured By Owner Sep 26, 2010  Professional Photographer
The boundary between pornography and erotica is very subjective and in turn respect him. ?Can I write the word censorship on any image where an erection and keep showing the picture in my gallery?

Thanks
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:iconrealitysquared:
realitysquared Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
Depends on how you censor it.
Reply
:iconalejandrocaspe:
alejandrocaspe Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2010  Professional Photographer
tell me about ways that I can censor the image without it removed from my gallery

Thanks
Reply
:iconcarsonhadlee:
carsonhadlee Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2010
I am a fat man ...with a penis that will get a hernia soon ...but I got a camera ...so I'm gonna make you all look ...and will defend my "art" to the death...

[link]

meh...it's butt ugly...maybe not porn ..but for sure not art...

try to do something artistic...and quit submitting this stuff here...

[link]
Reply
:iconzananeichan:
zananeichan Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2010
People are still confusing Art with "porn", the Art is still getting deleted unfortunately the work that is "porn" tends to be more in photographic galleries, I love nudity and sensuality, these are of art.. and then the definition of pornography is incorrect , I shared a link with you in your other journal.
Much Love and huggles
:heart: :hug:
Reply
:iconglimpses2020:
glimpses2020 Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2010
Perhaps using several different icon symbols instead of the single grey one with the horizontal bar would be helpful.

You could continue using that icon but include the text:
*contains nudity
*contains graphic violence
*contains religious symbolism
*contains more drawings of cats [ok I'm being facetious]

There should also be a method for members to upload their cell phone pictures and bypass the process of having them viewed at all outside of their page without those viewers having been invited.

I would like to post pictures/illustrations that I know are more for my personal use, however, it means that everyone has to filter through them on the browse pages even though I would gladly like to add them to my page collection directly. That way, if I have taken a photo shoot of 50 shots of anything I don't have to load all 50 and clog up the search pages. I could load just one publicly and from that the general membership would have to go to my page to see the entire shoot and they will know in advance what they will be faced with. I think that this may even be preferable for many submitters of the cell phone porn, banal crotch shots and cat doodles (just kidding about the cats).

Could you add a category for submissions that are not intended by the member to clog up the system but just so they can add them into their personal page collection. These submissions would only show up while browsing if all the perimeters to that category are selected by the searcher. Submissions to this category would have a very limited choice of keywords to choose from:

eg: crotch shots vaginas erections cell phone personal doodles scratch unart (etc).

The point being that there should be a place where we members can upload our photos/art in our voluntary attempt to limit their being viewed by persons who might object to the content. Including kitten drawings (just kidding).

We can then feel that people who viewed those submissions all but asked to see them.

Another thought is to do something similar to what you have with the Portfolio's. Password protection. I can then, not only have my junk or erotic works in a limited viewing category but I can have it password protected. The password could be allowed/required as a necessary keyword for entering the page.

These methods can be voluntarily utilized by the Member. When necessary, the staff can require a member to place a controversial submission [be it related to porn or to copyright] into a password protected zone.

Oh, one more. Browse default should be set for "NEWEST" instead of "POPULAR" That way I don't have to see things I've already seen which I disliked over and over again [e.g. pussy cats]
[Sorry I rambled]
Reply
:iconlacy-jae:
lacy-jae Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2010  Professional Traditional Artist
In general I just really don't need to look at close-ups of genitalia. I have my own views on what is and isn't artistic (shots that aren't obviously "this is my peen, look at it" but more a bodyscape perhaps, or a rendering of the genitals in a medium that isn't a photograph, I may find more "art" than "porn")... I'm sure there are ways to be doing "art" shots, whether in photography or other mediums, and perhaps one day I'll have a use for those crotch shot photos, but... I really don't need to see 'em unless I'm, for some reason, looking for them. Some way to turn them off without turning off mature content would be fabulous.

And I'm not a prude. And I'm a fan of nude ladies and men. And even semi-sexual things as long as it's not porn (there are other sites for that!)... I mean, I have plans to do series that involve genitals. I'm not bothered by ladybits and manbits. I'm just rather sick of seeing bad-quality crotch shots.
Reply
:iconmonophoto:
monophoto Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2010
While the debate is interesting, but bottom line is that there is no way to write a set of rules that everyone will be happy with.

I hate cats, and I consider images of cats to be obscene. On the other hand, I don't have a problem with erect penises, or spread labia - although I don't consider such graphic images to be at all artistic. Shocking - yes, but artistic, not at all.

Ultimately, the viewer is the final arbiter in every case - and the bottom line is that if the viewer doesn't like what he or she sees, then they should go to some other site.
Reply
:icondarthhell:
darthhell Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
What about a filter in the mature category that states "exposed male genitalia" and "exposed female genitalia" so either can be turned off by whoever doesn't want to see them. And if you happened to come across an image that isn't properly tagged have a feature for the viewer to click a friendly reminder to the poster that a filter needs to be tagged. Like next to the 'report image' button have a 'suggest filter' button with an additional menu that opens with the filters.
Reply
:iconrealitysquared:
realitysquared Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
We want to avoid splitting the existing mature content tags into sub-sections- when you start to do that you legitimize calls for additional sub-sections and the whole system eventually becomes this crazy mess which is over complicated.
Reply
:iconresalewisfreelance:
resalewisfreelance Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2010  Professional Photographer
This seems to be such a large topic on this website, and I can see why to an extent. I personally have no problems with nude art in any way shape or form as long as it's actual art. I do get irritated when I search for something specific and I get a complete opposite of what I was searching for which has from time to time brought up the infamous crotch shots.

Where nudity in art can be a very beautiful thing, it can also be someone just looking for attention. It is said that ones mans vulgarity is another mans lyrics, however, I don't see any lyrics in a cell phone picture of a vagina. Personally it is degrating to the artists who do take the time and the effort to display tasteful artistic points of view on that area of the body. Afterall this website holds itself to the classifications of art so shouldn't its standards be that of artistic value? I understand that some people who ask does this mean that everyone should be held to that same standard? I have stated this before in another forum on this site but my answer to that is no, no one else should. Why? Because a 13 year olds first drawing of a kitten is not offensive to anyone but nude art, violence, political views, race views can be. And that is why those should be held to slightly higher standards.

I do understand the erect penis issue, I don't neccisarily blame DA for it but I do not think that it's fair to be able to show pictures of a female with her fingers inside her vagina (which I have seen on this site), or a vagina with fluids coming out of it (which I have also seen on this site), but not a fully erect penis which coming from a female point of view can actually be very artistic. Unfortunately DA doesn't make or control the laws and how they are set.

Has DA considered allowing it's viewers to decide what is art and what isn't? I'm sure this subject has come up I was just curious as to the answer and why or why not? I have seen many people say that they would volunteer to do such jobs and wonder if something like that is out of the question. I have been a moderator of a different website that a system like that where not perfect did help to clean up the site. It was a majority rules style set up where we were given photos to look at with strict guidelines as to what was and wasn't allowed. For instance one of their rules was no children in any way shape or form to be allowed in any picture. I also had to interview to become a moderator so they could judge if I was of an objective point of view. Couldn't DA do a simular version based on a few small criterea such as picture quality (cell phone pictures of nudity aren't allowed?), fully erect penis' not allowed, Or flag something that might be too pornographic and let the staff decide if it stays or goes?

I guess my question is if it's out of the question that there could be a way of making a more interactive spread? I enjoy nude art, and even the attempts at nude art, but not something that is clearly (at least to me) not art at all.
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:iconrealitysquared:
realitysquared Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
We've always tried to allow creative works of all skill and talent levels so we really do not wish to start any process which would allow for removal of something based solely on a perceived lack of "quality".

Objectively moderating for content is one thing but we've traditionally steered clear of moderating by subjective standards and we have no desire to go there in the future.
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:iconhombreenbolas:
HombreEnBolas Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I think that if you tag your image as "adult", then there's no problem in upload adult images.
Reply
:iconknightranger:
KnightRanger Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2010
The following is a copy of a post that made on the editorial 'Pornography in My DeviantArt'. I think my comment apply here as well.

------------------

I have posted work on other sites over the years, and it seems this topic comes up eventually. There are always strong opinions, extreme examples, lots of venting, and much anger. In college I took a life drawing class which was by invitation only because the prof wanted to accept only mature students. Some of the work I have seen posted here on DA reminds of me of that class and then there is the stuff that is pushing things (my conservative opinion).

I know the mature content filter can be turned on but it seems that half of the DA gallery disappears if you turn the filter on. Can the DA admins add more options to the filter or better yet give us the option to determine which galleries we would like to see and not see when browsing DA. So for example if I do not want to see the Photography/People & Portraits/Pin-up gallery I could select an option that filter the content so I did not see anything from that gallery. In this way a user could make DA a more personal experience. Also it would allow easier browsing of the massive content that is here on DA. Finally with this option if I want to see a gallery that is turned off, I can turn it on and see the content.
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:iconsweetsuicidallove:
SweetSuicidalLove Featured By Owner Sep 23, 2010
My issue with this whole problem is that it isn't equally fair on men and women. I've seen a lot of erotic masturbation, inappropriate touching, and lewd photos of women get left alone while just about every penis that looks semi-erect gets taken down. I'm not offended by many things, but the fact that the $taff are being more lax on women in this category does offend me. I don't understand what the difference is between the male and female genitalia that would illicit such a behavior is, and therefore myself and others believe that the rules are unfair on both parties.
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:iconrealitysquared:
realitysquared Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
Actually you'd be incorrect- one of the biggest complaints is that we allow photographs of what people consider to be erections to remain posted because they don't meet the criteria in place for being removed.

People love to accuse the staff of being biased against nude male photography but that bias doesn't actually exist.
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:iconsweetsuicidallove:
SweetSuicidalLove Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2010
All I can say about that is the people reporting those and complaining about them are prudes. Or straight white males who enjoy looking at female genitalia and not males. But to be honest, there are women on this site, too, and we'd prefer the male over female vice versa if there absolutely must be nudity.

Please don't get me wrong, I have seen some stunning artistic nudes on here, but when it comes to purely pictures someone used a phone cam to capture and post up, it's just annoying to see women being allowed so much more than males simply because it's harder to tell the difference when they're excited vs. otherwise.

Yeah... People like to accuse the staff of a lot of things, really. Doing what I do with this account, I've heard everything from the staff being all perverted guys to them being untrained monkeys. I don't agree with a lot of what I hear, but there are a lot of people on here who have reported things and gotten less than (what they would deem to be) satisfactory results.
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:iconajglass:
AJGlass Featured By Owner Sep 23, 2010  Professional Artisan Crafter
I don't understand what the difference is between the male and female genitalia...

*insert biology lesson here*

=P
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:iconsweetsuicidallove:
SweetSuicidalLove Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2010
Er... I phrased that rather badly.
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:iconpittstop:
pittstop Featured By Owner Sep 23, 2010
I'm fairly broad minded and know that what would NOT offend me, might offend others. I'd only report something which I found to be depicting a clearly criminal act - such as child abuse or rape.

My biggest concern in all this is the motivations of people uploading images which they know are pornographic. Why choose a website like this one when others exist specifically for that purpose. Seems to me there might be issues there that deviant needs to address.
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:iconnikweb:
nikweb Featured By Owner Sep 23, 2010  Professional Photographer
I'm more worried about all the violence that is allowed here on DA.
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:iconsaniakob:
SanIakob Featured By Owner Sep 23, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
agreed! :nod:
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:icondpxdeviant:
dpxdeviant Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2010
Double agreed.
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:iconwhereuwant:
whereUwant Featured By Owner Sep 23, 2010
This is an art-sharing website. The human body is the part of the nude art with the most simple form and the case is considered an artistic visuals. I think the pornography is not art or branch of art and it's even disturbing. Clearly if you do not have art on this site can not be and should be reported.
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:iconlord-rhesus:
Lord-Rhesus Featured By Owner Sep 23, 2010   Photographer
What always bothers me, and I know for a fact of people telling me so themselves so I am not alone, is what is really considered pornography when a nude female model is spreading her labia.

The FAQ states that it can't be spread artificialy or by the model or someone else's hands. Same goes for the anus. We did report a lot of works that are mainly close ups of labias or pubis areas with spreading, and most of them come back as invalid reports, although they clearly do what the FAQ says they don't.

It really is puzzling me.
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:iconrealitysquared:
realitysquared Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
The problem with that, and I explain without the benefit of any examples, is that the people doing the reporting are misinterpreting the rules on that matter and reporting things which involve a hand placed near the vagina or the female models legs being spread and neither situation causes the labia to spread far enough open to be considered in violation of our policies.
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:iconlord-rhesus:
Lord-Rhesus Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2010   Photographer
You like being ambiguous, don't you? :D
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:iconrealitysquared:
realitysquared Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
If you want specifics then ask me a question which contains specific information and specific examples.

If you want an ambiguous answer then ask me a vague question which lacks any specific information or specific examples.
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:iconpowflip:
PowFlip Featured By Owner Sep 23, 2010
You know I've wondered why I run into so many self-crotch shots on DA, and not on Flickr, and why they annoy me so much on DA, and not on Flickr...

What I've realized is that when I am on DA, I tend to browse by category. When I'm on flickr there are no categories, so I go by group or by keyword.

The problem is that people are submitting these cell phone pics of their private parts to the "Artistic Nude" category. I don't have a problem with nudity. I have the mature content filter off. But I don't want to see exhibitionist's blurry, lazy, photographs alongside the works of people who are actually trying to have a go at making art.

Can't there be a subcategory in artistic nude, that crotch specific shots could be placed in, to spare people the agony of having to wade through them when they browse the artistic nude section? Should those pics even be in the artistic nude section in the first place?

I kind of wish you would bring back the category guidelines that would pop up when you submit art too, because that was a really helpful and useful feature.
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:iconrealitysquared:
realitysquared Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
I've often said myself that it'd be nice to have a separate category for the junky nudes so they could be separated from the photographs where someone is trying to actually do something classy, but I think such a category would create the problem of forcing staff to make decisions based on the old "art/ not art" argument and that's something we really try to avoid.
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:icontoddparis:
ToddParis Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2010  Professional Digital Artist
How about a category called "Anatomical"? It could cover all the "junky nude close ups" and "cell phone camera - mirror nude shots". The community at large, through their tactful commenting, could help guide new (or errant) deviants to post their material in the new category. It may not work 100%, but I bet it will greatly improve the situation.

My other idea has to do with increasing the user's ability to customize his viewing. For example, I always like to follow the newest submissions under Photography - People and Portraits. I find it problematic that on a page of new photos, the "junky nude close ups" are appearing right next to shots from "Infants and Children". We as users should have the ability to select the sub-categories within the People and Portraits section to be able to curate the collection that most interests and pleases us and is least likely to offend us or passersby. Don't you think?
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:iconpowflip:
PowFlip Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2010
I don't think it necessarily has to come down to art vs. not art. Just make a crotch category. Images of such content are submitted in such volume that I would believe it would be perfectly justifiable simply on the grounds that so many are submitted, regardless of perceived quality or artistic merit.

It would allow people like me for instance who don't have a problem with full body nudity, to browse the artistic nude category without having to look at close ups, which are almost something else altogether than the classic nude figure school of photography.
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:iconhybridinsurgency:
hybridinsurgency Featured By Owner Sep 26, 2010  Student Traditional Artist
Yes, like the crotch/close-up category idea.
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