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Mature Content

Journal Entry: Mon Sep 13, 2010, 10:07 AM


Mature Content

As I'm certain most long time watchers of this space are aware, deviantART policy is not completely static and unchanging. While there are certain tenants of it which must remain, such as the bits concerning certain restrictions involving copyright, pornography, and other such severe matters, there are several policies which we have in place which we have some discretion in how they are worded and how they are enforced when necessary and we usually try to take a good hard look at them once every year or so.

This is part of the delicate balancing act we try to strike between artistic freedom and censorship; like it or not we simply can't accept everything and we're always trying to make certain that the line between what we accept and what we don't accept is in the best interests of the community as a whole.

One of these areas discretionary areas is Mature Content and in preparation for 2011 I'll be taking a good look at what should be tagged and what shouldn't be tagged and how the whole thing should be presented to you guys out there in the community.

What I would like to see during this review period is some input from the community at large - how do you use the tag? What sorts of things do you think should be tagged? When you look at something potentially offensive, such as nudity, how much is enough to justify a tag in your opinion and when do you think the work can go without?

Some other things to consider are;

Do you browse with the tag on or off? Why?

If you had the option to filter out certain types of content would you? Would it change your browsing experience?

If you could "rate" certain types of mature content on a scale of 1-10 and then elect to filter out works of a certain value or higher while viewing others would you use this option?

If you've seen any good arguments or commentary for or against certain things concerning mature content tagging can you give me links to them or invite those deviants over here to express their ideas and/or dissatisfaction?

A Step Beyond Acceptable

Now as most readers here also know, the fact that deviantART has a mature content system does not mean that we accept pornographic works.

The definition that we use to determine whether or not something should be considered to be "pornographic" or not is also something which we have just a little bit of discretion as to where we set the line.

We've fussed with this one on and off in order to ensure as much artistic freedom for people to be provocative and erotic as possible without allowing the clearly pornographic stuff.

What do you think about where the line is drawn?

Do you think it is too permissive? To restrictive?

If you don't like the current system how would you change it? What would you suggest to be done differently?

In depth discussions and opinions are welcome.

Just To Be Clear

Simply because we are doing our annual review of what we are doing on these subjects and calling for community input doesn't necessarily mean that there will be any sweeping or major changes - we are mainly looking for your opinions and suggestions on the subject and they may or may not influence the coming staff discussions but since we certainly don't have a monopoly on good ideas we'd like to know what you think on these subjects.

Petitions, ranting, and general asshattery will be ignored.

Intelligent discussions and worthwhile opinions will be noted.


  • Mood: Content

Add a Comment:
 
:icongojiragirl75:
GojiraGirl75 Featured By Owner Nov 1, 2010  Student Digital Artist
from ~AHundredWingedWishes comment below:

"If you could "rate" certain types of mature content on a scale of 1-10 and then elect to filter out works of a certain value or higher while viewing others would you use this option?:
Seeing as how this can be exploited, I'm on the fence. Also, some works may be put on the more dangerous end of the scale that may not be as bad. Frankly, I'd rather have a severe art posting delay and some quality control on DA's end."

I completely agree, I think that's the best solution for DA nowadays, it may not be the most affordable solution for DA Admnis. because that means hiring more staff to accept/deny each piece being submitted everyday every second.

That would also help to keep this website free of "non-artists" (who would fit better on Photobucket/MySpace/whatever) because hopefully, after having piece after piece being denied on DA, these people would just give up, close their accounts, and move on to a porn site or wherever.

Deviant Art is much too big and famous a website now, so these people want only one thing: to be seen, and they will not follow the new rules, like they are not following now, I am so tired of seeing pieces being submitted to the wrong categories just to find its way around the rules, and I am so, SO DAMN TIRED of reporting these people and nothing is being done, I have not received ONE WORD from any DA staff about my reports, including some serious and obvious Copyright infringement, it's unbelievable:-X. So I guess that DA needs more staff starting from now...
Reply
:iconciradrak:
ciradrak Featured By Owner Oct 10, 2010
I browse with the MC flag on. -- no MC is displayed. Ppl say, 'if you're letting your kids on DA you should be there with them', well, I am. And I don't feel like bringing any extra grief and sorrow to my life by ruining their innocence.

I do find though that at least among my friends that they sometimes use the mature flag more than is necessary. That works out as we can click through and still see their drawing.

Then there are things which don't seem to get flagged correctly, surry, but some of the fetish/bondage/macabre/hardcoregore stuff makes me want to barf, let alone my little hatchlings. I vote for a slightly more complex system of filtering... but not too much more complex as that gets really cumbersome quickly. The current simple system wins there.

SO... I believe we already have a rather complex content category system in place. My wish is that I can choose which of the current categories I consider to be 'mature' in my situation. Another possible way of looking at it is as a category browsing system. I can choose that I'm simply not interested in certain categories.

I think the 1-10 rating system would be too cumbersome as we each must rate our work. My friends seem to over rate themselves into mature content when they aren't.

All this being said, DA is about art, and I don't consider nudity to necessarily be inappropriate. I do want exposure to ART (and I want to expose my children to it too), and the human body shouldn't be considered as inappropriate simply because you can see it! I believe we _need_ to see ourselves as beautiful. I don't want a set of hard and fast rules stating if you can see XXX it's inappropriate. The message is relavent to deciding appropriateness.

Also, some of the avatars are problematic. Perhaps we should use the same content system when submitting them...

I've helped in a university to address the issues of appropriateness and content filtering on the Internet in the past. So I've thought about these things. Good luck on finding the best middle ground. There is room for improvement.
Reply
:iconpolarextremesstudio:
PolarExtremesStudio Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2010  Professional Photographer
Hi

Tonight $chix0r suggested to me to leave a suggestion in comment form on this journal. $chix0r had a lengthy comment conversation on my news article - [link]

To keep my point clear and my suggestion memorable the article and the conversation with $chix0r was with one suggestion in mind, to create a separate category for photographic nudes other than “artistic nude” for the type of images that are best described as “the photo documentation of an exhibitionist / lusty lifestyle” rather than collaborations between photographers and models be they amateur / professional or hobbyist etc

The point of which is to separate images like this - [link]

From images like these - [link] and [link] and [link] and [link] and [link]

A category such as “nude scraps” “nude snapshots” to create some separation between the artistic collaborations and the genital / bend and spread snapshots would be a very beautiful thing

Thanks you for being available for comment
Reply
:iconinsifais:
Insifais Featured By Owner Oct 11, 2010
I agree with this, but must say that I don't think the second category belongs on this site at all.

I understand that definitions of what constitutes art range widely among deviants, but really think that such content is tasteless and brings down the overall dA experience.
Reply
:iconpolarextremesstudio:
PolarExtremesStudio Featured By Owner Oct 11, 2010  Professional Photographer
i am happy to see someone at your position who agrees and shares that ideal about the kind of images in question
so what can be done ?

and yes if help is required i always put my money where my mouth is ;-)
Reply
:iconahundredwingedwishes:
AHundredWingedWishes Featured By Owner Sep 26, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Do you browse with the tag on or off? Why?:

A few years ago (I have another account) I turned it off, as many of thee filtered art pieces were simply those that contained blood or mature themes. Recently I want to turn it back off due to all the nasty pieces floating around DA.

If you had the option to filter out certain types of content would you? Would it change your browsing experience?
I'd filter out clear crotch shots, as well as pieces that were linked to porn sites (which there are those out there). I'd also filter out non-artistic shots, because let's face it, it's quite clear which pieces those are. It's understandable with an artist without the means for expensive equipment trying to learn, but those are more rare than dodo birds.

If you could "rate" certain types of mature content on a scale of 1-10 and then elect to filter out works of a certain value or higher while viewing others would you use this option?:

Seeing as how this can be exploited, I'm on the fence. Also, some works may be put on the more dangerous end of the scale that may not be as bad. Frankly, I'd rather have a severe art posting delay and some quality control on DA's end.
Reply
:iconwere-were-wolfy:
were-were-wolfy Featured By Owner Sep 26, 2010  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
I have one account on which I upload mainly fetish pictures and therefore I usually browse without the filter on with all my accounts.
I however think I would like the option to adjust the filter. Specially to distinguish between different types of mature content. If you don't have anything against nudity, then it doesn't necessarily mean you want to see violence for example.
I would also find it practical if there would be some kind of sign when a deviation is classified as mature content and as what type it has been marked.
In the current system I don't understand why you have to choose a reason\type when marking the deviation as mature content. To my knowledge this extra information is neither used for the filter, nor is it displayed with the deviation.
I also think the categories you can choose to mark the content are hard to understand. I only recently found out that I probably tagged most of my deviations wrong.

So to summon it up.
1) Make easier to identify categories for uploading deviations.
2) Make a small icon which shows on the deviation page when the deviation has been tagged and what it has been tagged for.
3) Make the filter adjustable for the different categories.

That's just my two cents.

Anna
Reply
:icononinoshiko:
oninoshiko Featured By Owner Sep 26, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I love this suggestion.

Having more fined-grained controls about what type of content, and expressing what is in it more accurately, rather then just the rather generic "mature" seems like a win for everyone.

From my perspective, I am not looking to "trick" anyone into seeing anything they don't want. For those looking to find what is on my page (for the life of me, I don't know who that is or why they want to find it) I would expect it to make it easier for them to find.

Oninoshiko.
Reply
:iconannajordanart:
annajordanart Featured By Owner Sep 26, 2010  Hobbyist Artist
On/Off?
I browse with the tag off because I primarily look at Body Art.
filtering certain types?
No because I feel its partially my responsibility to suggest/report deviations that need a mature filter on or just need to plain be removed.
rating mature content
It is a difficult topic as different countries/states have different laws in terms of what is and isn't acceptable depending on age, etc. For example, as part of the Body Art group I help run we can't allow certain themes or body parts because of where one of our main individuals lives. And we don't want him to get into trouble or face charges etc.
This needs to take into consideration things like Body Art, Fetish Photography, etc. I mean, in some sense, it might make sense to filter off entire sections of dA to the younger individuals. I know its not 'fair' to age discriminate, but this is more about safety and what is suitable to be seen.
As for rating... I do think it would be a good idea as the mature filter concept can be a bit cloudy in terms of certain things. Such as if I were to photograph a dead bird, I wouldn't want to upset younger individuals, but it doesn't have any gore or anything like that. Y'see? Tricky, as every deviation is individual =]

Hope this helps!
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:iconilantiis:
iLantiis Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Do you browse with the tag on or off? Why?
Off. I love all kinds of art, and I don't search for art I don't want to see.

If you had the option to filter out certain types of content would you? Would it change your browsing experience?
Wouldn't change my experience. I wouldn't use it.

If you could "rate" certain types of mature content on a scale of 1-10 and then elect to filter out works of a certain value or higher while viewing others would you use this option?
That will cause a problem. What one person rates as porn may not be the same rating as another person.

What do you think about where the line is drawn?
I just think the policies should be enforced. Right now, if you look at the policies the way they are written, they are not being enforced.

Do you think it is too permissive? Too restrictive?
Neither. The policies are find, great actually. They just aren't enforced. If policy dictates that child-likenesses are not to be shown in a mature way, why is [link] allowed? Doesn't make any sense except that the policies are just there as eye-candy and don't actually mean anything.

If you don't like the current system how would you change it? What would you suggest to be done differently?
Just follow your own policies, and if you aren't going to follow them and enforce them equally, remove them. It'll help either way.
Reply
:iconrydi1689:
rydi1689 Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I'd use those options if they were avalaible <3 I am somewhat immune to horror and macabre and also to nudity, but there are some cases of them both that are far too extreme for me to even glance at them, so taking them out with the filter would be much appreciated!

But of course, no matter if I put the filter on or off, deviants will still not tag their works as mature content :giggle:.

But I'm up for it :)
Reply
:iconbrigettemora:
BrigetteMora Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2010  Student Filmographer
Do you browse with the tag on or off? Why?

Off. If I see something I don't like, I click away. As long as it's not breaking site rules, people should be able to post what they like. Since there currently isn't much of a way of shutting certain things off myself (more specific filters that I can set to avoid seeing things, rather than requiring the artist to do the filtering,) for now, if I don't like it, all I have to do is click away.

If you had the option to filter out certain types of content would you? Would it change your browsing experience?

Absolutely. I wouldn't do it for myself, but for my daughter, when she's old enough to join dA. I want to protect her innocence as long as humanly possible, and I'm fully aware that dA allows a LOT of things that can undermine that intent. Having such filter options will allow me to help ensure her safe passage through dA's more mature sections of the community, until such time as she is ready to navigate solo.

If you could "rate" certain types of mature content on a scale of 1-10 and then elect to filter out works of a certain value or higher while viewing others would you use this option?

Only if the rating doesn't affect other viewers, or whether or not the deviation is allowed to stay in dA. I don't have the right or obligation to rate someone's work based on my personal tastes and tolerances, other than to include or preclude it in/from my own viewing experience (or that of my daughter's.) In other words, as long as my ratings are never made public (so as not to upset the artist, or bias other viewers,) it would be a handy way to filter work that I may or may not see.

What do you think about where the line is drawn?

I do agree with several others who've said that we need to make it more fair. It isn't fair that the penis is considered evil unless flaccid, but female genitalia can be posted before, during and after sexual arousal. Granted, it is far easier to see when a male is aroused vs when a female is aroused, but "what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander." Either allow male genitalia to be shown erect, or tighten the policy regarding images containing female genitalia.

Do you think it is too permissive? To[o] restrictive?

It's hard to say. I am against censorship, but I do not want to see this site become dP (deviantPORN.) I think a balance has been found for now, but there is always room for improvement.

If you don't like the current system how would you change it? What would you suggest to be done differently?

I agree with most of the comments here. I don't think it's a matter of being too strict or lax (because as far as I know, the laws of the land are being obeyed by dA's regulators,) but it would be great to see more specific filters that we as viewers can turn on, rather than have to place them as we upload our work. My 10 year old is chomping at the bit to join dA, and when she joins when she's 13, I want to be able to filter out things that will cut her innocence short. As she gets older and I am able to explain why people do the art they do, I can turn those filters off. But I'm sure that such filters would not only help parents regulate what their children see, but allow those of us who have religious or personal objections to certain content to better tailor their navigation of the site. While we should allow artists who create mature content their freedom, we should also be considerate towards the other artists who would rather not be "subjected" to that content. This is a community, and we should strive for a middle ground, to the better to keep from alienating any particular group or individual.
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:iconeva-st-clare:
eva-st-clare Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2010   Traditional Artist
I guess my main problem is that don't see consistency in the guidelines of what qualifies as 'porn' and what doesn't. Most people can, I think, tell the difference between a photo that attempts to use lighting, composition, concept, etc. to make the subject look artistic, and one that was just snapped on a webcam and posted without any other thought.

I've started seeing so many crap photos of genitalia lately that I would be a much happier person if I could simply filter out the entire 'Artistic Nude' category. Yes, it's a damn shame that I would miss out on the truly skilled photographers, but I'm not so interested in looking at nude photos that it's worth being faced with a bunch of random penises out of the blue every time I log in here. If I wanted to look at close ups of genitalia, or the photos of exhibitionists, I'd find a porn site for that.

I don't like the way the mature tag is right now-- I draw nude/partially nude figures from time to time, and I can't even mouse over my own damn deviations to see what they are when i'm editing my own gallery. It seems silly that for me to not look at random penis/vagina camwhore shots, I have to block anything that has breasts in it...
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:iconradical-rain:
radical-rain Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2010
Personally, in regards to mature content, I think the administrators need to double check their rules. And not only that, since it's such a touchy subject, I think the rules need to be clarified and/or changed for everybody - because it seems the admins are allowing photographs that contradict the TOS, while unfairly disallowing others. There are some that are borderline pornography, yet they've either been ignored by the admins or are actually accepted.

There's a double-standard when it comes to nude/fetish photography on this site. It's explicitly against the rules to upload a photo or a drawing of an erect penis (which indicates sexual arousal), but a woman with a spread vulva, covered in her own bodily fluids is 100% acceptable. Isn't that obvious sexual arousal? and isn't that against the rules?

For example, there was one photograph I came across of a woman masturbating with her hands. It was reported a few times, but the admins dismissed the reports.

Don't get me wrong now, I do love nude/fetish photography a lot. I think it belongs on this site, because it IS art. But I think some individuals are bending the rules, and the administrative team is doing nothing about it - in fact, it appears you're welcoming it.
Also, like I said, I don't think the rules are fair enough. The rules should also include sexual arousal of a female, not just a male. It's absolutely not fair to have a rule against arousal for men but not women. Because that is borderline porn, and the dA staff have made it clear they do not accept pornography on this site.

And I agree with *La-Siren-of-Eire, I think the staff is really biased in the regard of nude photography. I think this needs to change.
I mean, if I draw a picture of a completely nude male, it will be removed almost immediately, even if I have a mature content filter on it. Yet, someone can upload a photograph of a completely nude male and it's accepted. Like I said, the staff seems to be either really biased, or completely disorganized.
Reply
:iconsabisaotome:
sabisaotome Featured By Owner Sep 23, 2010  Professional Artist
I browse with my filter off.
What is and is not art is not something any group of people can agree on. Leave things how they are.

Yeah, I see crummy pseudoporn all the time here. I also see some crummy drawings I wouldn't call art. I see stolen work.
I'm more worried about if it's your work entirely than whether or not I find it tasteful.

If I don't, I don't fave. That simple.

Everyone else is just butthurt that they might actually have to keep an eye on their kids or for whatever moralistic reason they have for condemning "OMG PORNOGRAPHY"...Keep the rules as they are. You guys are doing a good job of keeping an eye on things.

Like it's been said before, we don't need help protecting us from ourselves.



(On another note, anyone whos gallery is full of badly-angled quick snapshots of their junk with a profile that's all about meeting for sex deserves the banhammer. I've seen that before.)
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:iconking-kaz:
King-Kaz Featured By Owner Sep 23, 2010
Well I understand that tracing art is considered art since I did that and its pointless on why people bash people who are beginning with drawing and art.

And I think people and trolls are abusing dA rules by posting nude erotica and genitals to do it for the lulz. Well, I hope these rules wont change as well as stolen/edited art..:)
Reply
:iconuae4u:
uae4u Featured By Owner Sep 23, 2010  Hobbyist Photographer
I browse with the tag on of course, because I don't want to view deviations with nudity. Why not remove the whole gallery from dA ?? I know many people would disagree, but I won't argue much. At least, we are allowed to put the tags on :nod:
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:icondrybonesreborn:
DryBonesReborn Featured By Owner Sep 22, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I browse with it on. Too many vaginal spreading and penises and ejaculations have been showing up and makes me want to shower all day.

Clearly, there are vaginal spreadings and the like but they get tossed out when it's beyond 'erotic'. Isn't porn erotic?

Isn't this pg-13 atleast not R? If Da has porn make it 18 and up not 13.
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:iconkomrads:
komrads Featured By Owner Sep 22, 2010
To address the undergarment vs swimsuit debate I think a good start would be here:
If it is an image that would appear on a national news channel, a billboard, or a nationally recognized magazine that is readily available and viewed, without restriction of age, (including Sports Illustrated), then a place of art like dA should be the last place you would expect to tag it with a censorship restrictions.

If I can see it televised at the Olympic Games: Beach Volleyball, Swimming, Diving, Gymastics, Triathlons etc.
If I can see it on a Times Square billboard and Vogue magazine,
If I can see it in a Weider's Body Builder Magazine,
If I can see it on the Miss USA pageant,
If I can see it on PBS, National Geographic, and 60Minutes.
If I can see it on a daytime soap and on one of those 'housewives' daytime series,
If I can see it a my local public swimming pool where parents take their children,
If I can see it on So You Think You Can Dance,
etc. You get the point. dA is not the Taleban.

I have seen, posted, and searched on art that dA currently deems as Mature. From my experience, for the most part, I believe the adult related rules that currently exist have been well thought out and fairly administered. Discretion of staff to vote one way or another when a submission is in a 'grey' area I believe to be an acceptable power for a trained experienced team of staff to have. I won't always be happy about each decision.

My 2 cents:
1. If a submission is truly questionable as to being 'art' vs 'porn', and the submission is not something that could normally be found in my list above, then the dA staff should err on the side of tagging the piece as Mature.
2. I don't think multiple levels of 'mature ratings' are necessary. However, the staff or the deviant could tag a controversial submission with a 2nd level warning such as: Warning, This Submission May Be Deemed Too Explicit For Some Viewers.

The only thing I have found regarding the policies that I think to be unfair and sexist is the stated complete ban on male erections even when sexual intercourse is not implied. I can sit back on the couch watching TV with my partner (both of us nude or near nude) and have an erection for long periods in a non-sexual atmosphere (I'm watching the game!). If a photo of us together like that is acceptable when my penis is soft it should not become unacceptable if it is partially erect or fully erect. I'm not bent over spreading my anus or pulling open someone's vagina for a photo shoot. You really should lighten up on that!

Lastly, I find a lot of the photos I see in the mature category to be distasteful and ugly, sometimes gross. But I'm not the Taleban either.
Reply
:iconfantasylost:
FantasyLost Featured By Owner Sep 22, 2010   Digital Artist
Just as adult members of DA are not censured from viewing all types of content on DA, so should those members be given the option to NOT view content that does not meet with their moral or artistic values. DA already has the structure available (Mature Content tags and Deviation Categories) to allow members to do their own filtering without the need for complicated rating systems that will never achieve a consensus and that would require only minimum programming by DA staff.

Many members not only object to sexually explicit, bondage, fetish, horror, blood and gore, and similar subject matter covered under the "Mature Content" tag, they also frequently relate their objections to anime, anthro, photomanipulations in general, horse manipulations in particular, cute kitten photography, snakes, and even digital art rather than traditional art.

To initiate this filtering, members could be given access to a Filter Menu where they can place a check mark by "Mature Content," as they've done in the past, to filter out those items contained in that all-encompassing tag, and/or they should be able to place check marks by those specific categories or sub-categories that they choose not to view. If they like Artistic Nude photography, but don't like Body Art or Fetish Portraits, they can place check marks only by the two latter sub-categories and leave the Mature Content option unchecked. If they don't like to view snakes and spiders and other crawly creatures, they can check off Invertebrates and Reptiles/Amphibians under the Photography category. If they don't want to look at Stock Photos, they could check off the entire Stock category.

To make it very easy to add to or subtract from these selections at any time, a "Preferences" (or suitably named) button can be added front and center to the top of each member's profile page. Members would still have the right to approve the viewing of any filtered deviation whenever they so desired, just as they now can when they have the Mature Content filter turned on.

By using the above custom filtering, my choices would have no impact whatsoever on anyone else's choices. It would then be up to DA administration to still set standards of what can be uploaded to the site, and what will be covered by the Mature Content tag which also affects all members under the age of 18 and visitors to the site.

To allow the filtering of four of the more often-named subjects that members disapprove of, I would ask DA programmers to add these Sub-Categories: Genital Nudity (emphasis on "crotch" shots, both male and female), Child Morbidity (deviations that include dead children), Zoo/Animal-Park Animals (photographs of animals living in zoos or animal parks vs those living in the wild), and Horse Photomanipulations (manips predominantly containing horses only). I do horse manipulations and, yes, I read a lot of comments from members who state they are "sick of horse manips" or worse. I would love to be able to "hide" my works from those who aren't interested in them and would be happy to upload them to a separate sub-category that would allow that to happen.

Of course, filtering (whether for viewing or for searching) would be most useful if members would upload their deviations to the correct categories! To aid in this endeavor, I would suggest that DA provide more explicit definitions for the types of artwork that should be included in each major category and/or sub-category and perhaps include links to some sample works for those categories (the samples might be mini-awards for quality work such as the Daily Deviation awards with updates on a monthly basis?)

Thanks for the opportunity for input :).
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:iconthepeeves:
ThePeeves Featured By Owner Sep 22, 2010
I won't enter the discussion of Mature Content at this point, but I feel very passionately about the amount of low-grade pornography that has been overwhelming deviantART of late. I wrote a news article about it here -

[link]

To sum up my belief, when an image "lacks artistic merit" and "causes sexual thought", it fits the Supreme Court definition for pornography and is thus innappropriate for dA. This covers "myspace shots" of girls posing naked in bathrooms, naked breasts for the sake of naked breasts, close-ups of crotches, etc. Most of these images have been snapped and loaded onto the website in under a few minutes - no thought has gone into the lighting of the shot, the composition, the colours. They are at best, low-grade pornography, and at worst, exploitation.

My article is a call-to-arms for Deviants to report all such images with the phrase, "Lacks artistic merit. Causes sexual thought." I have reported such images before, only to be told that whilst they may fit my own definition of pornography, they are not explicitly pornographic. However, using that phrase was my first success, and the offending image was removed.

If it lacks artistic merit, it does not belong on deviantART, and deviantArt should pride itself as being above these kinds of images. Snapping your breasts and/or genitals for the approval of the internet is not artistic freedom, nor should it be permitted. And I feel that deviantART should take a very strong stance against this kind of cheap pornography.
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:iconrealitysquared:
realitysquared Featured By Owner Sep 23, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
You should read this older news article- it explains why these types of items are not routinely removed.
Reply
:iconthepeeves:
ThePeeves Featured By Owner Sep 23, 2010
Which older news article? If you could provide me with a link, I would be very much obliged. :)
Reply
:iconrealitysquared:
realitysquared Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
My apologies- this [link] older news article.
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:iconassclownfish:
AssClownFish Featured By Owner Sep 22, 2010
I would like to link this to you. It's not a petition, or rant, or asshattery, but another entirely different collection of opinions on the subject. [link]
Reply
:iconrealitysquared:
realitysquared Featured By Owner Sep 23, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
I invite you to read a counter article [link]
Reply
:iconassclownfish:
AssClownFish Featured By Owner Sep 23, 2010
:) I'm certainly not against artistic nude. I'd just like to see more equality in it.
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:iconboffinbrain:
BoffinbraiN Featured By Owner Sep 22, 2010  Professional Interface Designer
My only comment on this is that if a maturity scale were in place, it would have to be a qualitative one, not a quantitative one. It will be impossible to ensure that people rate their mature content consistently with everyone else, but having, say, three levels, each with clear, distinct definitions about what does and doesn't apply for that maturity level, will more likely work.
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:iconthegreenestrose:
TheGreenestRose Featured By Owner Sep 22, 2010  Hobbyist Photographer
As a minor(my opinion doesn't matter yet), I have to have the tag on.
But everyone's opinion of mature content is different, quite obviously. I personally don't mind artistic nudes, and horror/violence-related art. There is a lot of art on this site that's had a great impact on me that I wouldn't have seen if DA didn't allow minors to see any mature content at all. To me, it's the same principal as if you were to say minors shouldn't be able to set foot in museums because there's more mature art inside. It's still art, and (sometimes) it's great art and I'd hate to miss out on it simply because I'm not over 18.

If you could "rate" certain types of mature content on a scale of 1-10 and then elect to filter out works of a certain value or higher while viewing others would you use this option?
I don't think I'd care for this - as I said before, everyone has a different opinion of what's mature content. I can already see artwork like [link] being rated as hardcore pr0n while pictures like [link] is rated much lower just because the people who bothered rating these pieces see things differently.
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:icondoodlemancy:
doodlemancy Featured By Owner Sep 22, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I never submit mature content, so I actually didn't see until just now, when I checked, that there are different categories under "strict" and "warning". That's a good change, whenever it happened :lol:

A lot of people are unhappy with what's happening on the admin end, but I'm not going to rant about that because it's not as important. I think a lot of what we need is more options for the users themselves to choose what kind of content they see.

We have the system, so let's make it work both ways. If I can apply filters and keywords to my work, it'd be great if I could also set which kinds of mature content I would like to see, and possibly blacklist certain keywords or categories. I don't know how complicated that would be to implement, or if dA would ever consider putting any of it in place at all, but boy, would it silence a lot of whining. =P

As an example of the above... let's say I don't mind violence or gore, or strong language, or ideologically sensitive material, but I don't want to see nudity or sexual themes. So in my settings, instead of just deciding whether I want to see mature content or not, I'd be able to just check those bottom three boxes instead of turning off ALL mature content in order to avoid boobies.

Or maybe, I'm okay with sexual themes, but I don't really like fetish portraits. So I might be able to go to my settings and add that category to a list of categories I just don't want to see.

Or maybe there is one specific thing on dA that I just want to filter out as much as possible, like inflation fetish art. When searching I can add "-inflation" to my search to try and avoid the stuff, but it's still going to show up here and there when I'm just browsing the front page. It'd be neat to be able to add a search keyword to some kind of blacklist.

That last bit would actually be great because you could also blacklist keywords that you're deathly afraid of, like maybe clowns or spiders or something. And with the category filtering, everyone who feels the need to complain about OMG THERE'S SO MUCH ANIME or OMG THERE'S SO MUCH FAN ART or OMG, THERE'S SO MUCH [other category of art that I don't like so I must complain about it constantly] could just turn it off and move on with their lives.

Filters are awesome. Filters make it easier to find what you want to see without sifting through piles of stuff you know you don't like/don't care about.

Anyway, maybe that's all a little out there, I don't know enough about the inner workings of dA. :lol: But I do visit some other gallery sites where all of these things are possible, and it makes for a great browsing experience because for the most part. It gives you a lot of control. And sure, it's not perfect and you'll filter out things you might actually want to see, or some things might slip through, but there is no perfect system. With user-imposed tags, a system is only as good as the people who use it, but having more tools makes it that much easier. =P It's the best suggestion I can offer.

1. Do you browse with the filter on or off?
I browse with my mature content filter off because there really isn't any kind of mature content that I don't care to see. But sometimes I turn it on when browsing on my laptop in public, because I'd rather not have people look over my shoulder and go, "OMG BOOBIES! YOU'RE LOOKING AT PORN! :iconevilmonkeyplz:"

B. If you had the option to filter out certain types of content would you? Would it change your browsing experience?
A thousand times YES. It's not even mature content related, I just hate spiders. For the most part I stay out of the insects/arachnids categories (and the reptiles, because for some reason a lot of people think spiders are reptiles :o) because every damn time I see one, I jump and my heart starts pounding. It's stupid, but that's what happens. :lol: If I could filter out keywords, I would filter "spider" so hard, it wouldn't know what filtered it. And then I would be a happy llama because the DDs would not regularly make me panic and start searching my walls like the broken individual I am :lmao:

C.If you could "rate" certain types of mature content on a scale of 1-10 and then elect to filter out works of a certain value or higher while viewing others would you use this option?
Aaaagh no. That complicates and abstracts things way too much. Definitely not a 1-10 scale. I really, really like our mature content filter as it is right now, it's just, it only works in one direction from the user side (on or off) so that makes it way less useful than it could actually be. I would say, make it work both ways first, and if that isn't enough, THEN start thinking about throwing numbers or values or what have you at it.
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:iconsirithduriel:
Sirithduriel Featured By Owner Sep 22, 2010
Without having read many other comments, I apologise in advance if many others have said this before me.

I browse with the filter off, since it filters things I have no trouble seeing, as well as the things I feel less comfortable about (more erotic or macabre things, not my cup of tea). I wouldn't want to miss a beautiful pinup, because she has naked boobies, or a scene with blood everywhere.

A rated system would be nice, but I realise this may be tedious to work with. "This piece should have nudity rating 6, because she's naked!" "No way, you don't see anything, it is just implied!" There's already some fuss about the mature content tag, and what constitutes pornography. Introducing a rating may not be the best move.

Making a difference between nudity, in-your-face nudity (like just the genitalia), fetish, horror/macabre, gore, violence, and other mature content might be a good idea, though. The mature content is too general now, IMO. If I would be able to turn on 'in-your-face nudity', I would like that, since I'm not interested in that.
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:iconeschlehahn:
eschlehahn Featured By Owner Sep 22, 2010
Okay, here are my two cents - I'll try do make it short since there are already so many comments here and I don't want to just repat what many have said before:

Do you browse with the tag on or off? Why?

I have the mature tag off. There is much good art to see which is labelled mature content and I wouldn't want to limit my browsing experience. Besides that, I think I am old enough to be able to deal with nudity ;)

If you had the option to filter out certain types of content would you? Would it change your browsing experience?

Yes! As said before, I have no problem with nudity. But if I had the opportunity to filter out violence content, I would possibly do it. I personally think that content showing rape and/or war scenes are much more problematic than naked butts and boobs. I can deal with it but I would rather not. I think that this violence content can also be highly triggering for people who are/were victims of violence in their life. As for nudity, I can understand that some people feel okay looking at slight nudity but not at totally exposed genitals. I respect that. So the option to filter out certain types of content sounds like a splendid idea to me.
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:iconsarahjphotography:
SarahJPhotography Featured By Owner Sep 21, 2010
Do you browse with the tag on or off? Why?

Off. I like looking at ARTISTIC nudes from time to time and some blood related deviations.
There is a fine line between [link] and most of what you see here [link]
Webcam/cellphone pictures of full on nudity ( or just boobs for example [link] ) is not art is my opinion. I know you can't really define art, but that's how I feel.

If it actually looks like the photographer/model put effort into making a nice shot, that's great. This means nice lighting, makeup, posing and such. Just taking a snapshot of your vagina is not art ( although some may argue that it's a beautiful flower :roll: )

Then there's the fact that I've reported many deviations that clearly go against the official rules ( and I see that other people have reported them as well ) and yet the report is dismissed.

I feel that DA needs to be more strict over what is and isn't allowed.

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:iconnusquam-vir:
Nusquam-Vir Featured By Owner Sep 21, 2010
It's a tough issue to be certain, and one I do not envy those who have to deal with it. Were it me, I'd likely implement some sort of three strike system to decide whether or not a particular given piece was too suggestive. Strikes would come down to things like, "is the piece openly suggestive?", "the presence (or lack of) genitalia?", or "are fluids openly depicted?", so on so forth.... This approach however, is of course completely tyranical, and therefore likely inapplicable. One may as well begin calling oneself the Great and Powerful Oz. :roll:

Of course, there would also always be those who would learn to manage barely riding that line as well so.... :shrug

Again, no envy here.
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:iconmorgue-awall:
Morgue-Awall Featured By Owner Sep 21, 2010  Hobbyist Writer
Just be more fair to both the sexes when it comes to 'pornographic' photographs, pictures, ect. I find it ridiculous that a man can't even show a trace of an erection, but I woman can spread her legs for the camera, allowing a full view of everything that goes on down there. How is that okay?

The rating system would be far too arbitrary to even use. People have different standards and cultures, there would be no way to have an even curve. And then people would argue about the standards and it would all go to hell.
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:iconbandlero:
Bandlero Featured By Owner Sep 21, 2010  Professional General Artist
I'd personally just like to see Gender Equality when it comes to defining "pornographic." If (as I've been made aware of the change to the rules) a male erection is only allowed to be shown in "approved" circumstances with educational or medical intent, I believe the same should be applied to the vulva (and even more specifically to the labia minora, clitoris (or clitoral hood), urethral opening, vaginal opening, etc - which are all INTERNAL anatomical parts) of the female being exposed. I think too often an unequal and discriminating amount of liberty is afforded to images and artwork displaying and portraying the female anatomy and the male anatomy is often unequally scrutinized and censored. In the real world, that would be called discrimination and sexism. My honest opinion is, if a penis cannot be shown erect (for whatever reasons) than neither should the interior of the vulva/female reproductive anatomy be shown. We need equality on this. Same goes for the "implied sexuality" that is "allowed."

Also, I think a "rating system" is an excellent idea - most every corner of the art industry does use one when it comes to "mature" content. However, I think a scale system would be too open for interpretation, subjective, and ambiguous; but, a G/PG/PG-13/R/X/XXX system, where each level was clearly defined would be a lot better and less subjective and open for debate (i.e. if it shows nudity it's R, but if it shows eroticism, sexuality, etc it is X.) Of course, people would want to argue left and right that "XYZ subject" is PG-13 and not R - every person has a different culture and set of morals. Honestly, the current "honor system" just isn't enough and doesn't work anymore.

On a slightly side note, are we going to start seeing the professional pornographers that are uploading their more "softcore" images onto deviantArt and then using their "art" and profiles to promote, peddle, and link-to their professional porn sites be removed? Still running across quite a bit of them, for example *abbywinters (who has been on dA uninterrupted, for 1 year now - even their watermark on the photos tell you how to get to the webpage and even include the exact same favicon/logo), who created the deviantArt account not to "share" "art" but as a promotional tool to advertise and drive business to their professional pornography website. There's at least 40 actual professional pornographers on deviantArt that I've personally run across due to browsing the "artistic nude" category. I mean honestly, for a site that's supposed to be "13 year old friendly" - allowing pornographers to remain on here is questionable - even if the filter blocks the images, it doesn't stop the pornographers from teaching/telling/showing the kids where to go get their porn.
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:iconassclownfish:
AssClownFish Featured By Owner Sep 21, 2010
I would like less of a double standard between men and women, if men are restricted from posting anything that indicated even a slight erection, than a woman with a camera up her lady parts seems a little, unfair. I would certainly use a filter to filter out specifics, because I don't find spread labia to have any artistic or erotic hold on the community and I would do as I could to not have to see it. I don't think it belongs here but ultimately it's the admins choice. I will say, I think it would be more appropriate to do a massive site wide poll and see what the full spectrum of the community thinks, rather than the select people who happen across this journal.
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:iconmelyannam:
MelyannaM Featured By Owner Sep 21, 2010
I do not have any problem with nudity. There are tons of gorgeous nude photos I have seen here that inspired me and left me stare in awe. But I have seen tons of photos of girls or guys spreading their butt cheeks (or with legs spread- especially girls&women) that I don*t see anything artistic about that and these photos lack technical quality too. You can say that each and one of us have their own idea of what art is but if you look at these photos you will usually find them on porn sites too. Unless porn=art I do mind seeing these photos here or at any art community (though I haven*t seen them at any art community I have been at beside dA) Yet considering fetish photography I have seen only sexual fetishism on deviant art (if you explore more you will find out that word fetish is not related to sexuality only. I believe you already know that). Even though the photographers who do that kind of photography are excellent the content of these photos is still sexual (or sexually disturbed as considered in psychiatric medicine) and can also be seen on fetish oriented porn sites.

All of the above mentioned apply to any other form of art (paintings drawings etc). Plus- there is a huge double standard going on. Popular artists with these kind of content will not get their works removed and I have seen it happen too many times. Their works included almost everything that DA prohibits ( as mentioned in FAQ #565: You prohibit the submission of 'pornographic imagery'; what do you consider this to be? ) but they haven*t gotten their work removed even though lots of people reported them.

These does not offend me but in my eyes they significantly lower the quality of this site.
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:icongoldeenherself:
GoldeenHerself Featured By Owner Sep 21, 2010   Traditional Artist
As someone who finds excessive gore more repulsive than full-frontal nudity, I always browse with the filter off. Nudity, eroticism, smut… doesn't bother me in the slightest.

I don't write or draw erotic content at all—just not the way I've chosen to channel my artistic energies—but I can still appreciate the fine line between simple nudity as an exploration of the human body, and porn.

I would like deviantART to be more relaxed in the forms of art it will display without censorship—for example, I do not think it is reasonable to require images with undergarments or bathing suits to be flagged as mature, and I would be disappointed if that made it into policy.
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:iconimagesnrc:
ImagesNRC Featured By Owner Sep 20, 2010
I agree with keeping the open nature of the site points of view. We don't need any additional "help" protecting us from ourselves. What I would like to see is a separate category simply for people who want to post open leg and hard-on shots of no particular quality or sense of aesthetic. They know who they are. We don't need a rating system because we will simply get caught up in opinion. The galleries and collections screw that up well enough for everyone.

Open leg vagina or erect penis - "artistic" or "pornographic" goes into one area – then you know. Done.

n
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:iconsensorycore:
SensoryCore Featured By Owner Sep 20, 2010  Professional Photographer
Exactly what I've always thought. The system in place is pretty good already, we probably just need a few more categories to well define whats going on.

At most, maybe a way to disable categories while we browse or account wide, but this is extreme and probably unnecessary.
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:iconimagesnrc:
ImagesNRC Featured By Owner Sep 21, 2010
Disabling categories is an interesting idea. At least it allows each participant to choose what they want to see and weigh for themselves what they "gain" and "lose" by doing so. Just like when you fave someone.

Perhaps also either setting a maximum number or a "standard" for those who feel it necessary to post 100 slight variations of the same boring image.

By the way, really impressed with your work. Great sense of light and "highlight" of the often overlooked. Made me think and i will steal (learn) from you for my own work. Thanks!
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:iconsensorycore:
SensoryCore Featured By Owner Sep 21, 2010  Professional Photographer
Yea you have some good ideas.

Thanks for the comment on my gallery. I really appreciate it. I am glad to help hehe. I looked at your gallery and you have some lovely pieces. I love your style in the images and the models have some really good expressions and mannerisms. Its really beautiful work. As it seems, I will learn a lot from your gallery as well. Take care friend.
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:iconimagesnrc:
ImagesNRC Featured By Owner Sep 21, 2010
Thanks, that's what we are here for - to learn from one another and to appreciate work in other genres. So hopefully with all the buz going on right now regarding some of the "lowering of quality" posts – just read something from a gallery that is marketing itself as the place to go to get away from that crap – that we can ensure DA remains a viable and strong resource for those of us who want to continue to learn.

n
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:iconsensorycore:
SensoryCore Featured By Owner Sep 28, 2010  Professional Photographer
Smart words. It's interesting.
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:iconrealitysquared:
realitysquared Featured By Owner Sep 20, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
I've often thought the same thing ;)

Thanks for your input
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:iconimagesnrc:
ImagesNRC Featured By Owner Sep 21, 2010
Depending upon what you/we all want this site to be, there is nothing wrong with "grading" work at least to a minimum level and separating work that is intended as an artistic and creative endeavor whether successfully executed or not) and that which is clearly of other meaning. If someone believes their work has been unfairly delegated to the "crap" (clearly a better title would be needed) then allow them to argue their case based upon basic artistic attributes; how does the contribution or the contributor demonstrate an understanding of the core attributes of the area in which they are contributing?

Hope this helps.

n
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:iconjuandfr:
Juandfr Featured By Owner Sep 19, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
If you could "rate" certain types of mature content on a scale of 1-10 and then elect to filter out works of a certain value or higher while viewing others would you use this option?
YES. I would love this option, even just 1-3 (tasteful to explicit, maybe?), especially if it had multiple ratings for different types of content ie: nudity, violence, gore, sexual content.

Personally, I surf with the tag off because I'm perfectly OK with nudity and even sex (in a scientific context); but I find myself disturbed by pieces whose intention is obviously to elicit or display a sexual response -especially a heated or emotionally-charged one- regardless of whether it contains nudity or other content traditionally labelled "mature."

TL;DR: could be used to separate tasteful nudity from softcore porn. I would approve of this.
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:iconkelt:
kelt Featured By Owner Sep 19, 2010  Professional Photographer
The "Mature Content" filter is a great feature that DA added, and should be on all the time just as it is.
Eight years ago when DA was small it was easy for the community to self regulate and even have a debate about individual work of art , but DA is so huge now and the amount of content uploaded every second makes this imposable.
I would like filters so I could block penises , a cock-blocker...., if you will.:sarcasticclap:
Not that there is anything wrong with someone wanting to view a penis.
I do not like censorship , so being able to filter content I do not wish to view would be amazing and that way other people who wish to view content that interests them could. It seems to be the fairest way all round.
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