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September 8, 2010
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Concerns and Discussion; &a bit of news at the

Journal Entry: Wed Sep 8, 2010, 11:41 AM



Okay so I realize that my last journal was written way back in May and it's probably time for me to spark a bit more discussion (since that's why most of you watch this profile).

Today's discussion isn't about policy, at least not directly, but it is about something which I feel strongly about and that I know many others feel strongly about and I started thinking about the issue based on a few things which crossed my desk earlier today.

The topic I want to discuss today concerns the realm of traditional art - sketching mainly - and how access to digital tools and the mathematical algorithms and procedures known as "filters" have had an impact on honesty among some traditional artists.

If you aren't certain what I'm talking about then you probably haven't gotten around the site very much over the years or maybe you just have a deep seated faith in the honesty of your fellow artists.

What I'm talking about is when an artist uses digital tools to manipulate a photograph into something which approximates a pencil sketch and then claims to have actually sketched the resulting manipulation.

There's a bunch of reasons why an artist would stoop to this level; feelings of insecurity and the all consuming Quest for Attention tend to be at the top though.

It is actually so easy to forge a pencil sketch out of a manipulated photograph I think it would be fair for me to say that I'll probably never :+fav: one regardless of how legitimate it looks just because I've seen to many cheaters.

Even if no direct manipulation has been done the art of "painting over" a photograph in a digital art program is such a popular "technique" that I just have quite a sour taste in my mouth over the whole subject matter- and that's not even approaching the whole issue involving copyrights and reproductions.

Now granted, way back when I used to redraw photographs from the 1800s and early 1900s so I did very similar work to what I'm complaining about right now but at the very least I relied upon public domain photographs for my references and when you actually compare my early pencil work with the photographs you can actually tell them apart because I actually drew freehand.

What I'm talking about is how some artists want to be known for producing astounding work so badly that it prompts a lot of cheating; directly drawing over the photo reference, "tracing" it in a vector program, "smudging" the photo directly, manipulating the photo (or pieces of the photo) into something which looks like a sketch or painting which barely looks different from the original.

A lot of you guys out there report this sort of stuff to CEA, but unfortunately there can be problems writing policy for this sort of cheating behavior.

I mean, how exactly do you prove that someone simply digitally painted on a layer above the actual photograph? Yes, you can prove the two are nearly identical but that fact alone says nothing about the method of creation.

The same can be said for various manipulations - we can't really prove anything because we weren't there during the creation process so all we have are suspicions, and regardless of how much you dislike the cheating behaviors you can't justify deleting something based on a suspicion alone because honestly there are actually artists out there who really are just that good.

So as much as some of you would like, we simply cannot moderate works which you think involved shortcuts or cheating in their creation based on that reason alone.

Copying a copyrighted work is another matter entirely and as I have stated elsewhere quite often if the owner of the copied work files a claim of infringement we'll be more than happy to review the claim; we'd rather than random people don't try to file any complaints because only the actual owner has the right to decide that they don't want their works copied so stop complaining to me and get them involved.

As far as "catching" people taking digital shortcuts and cheating your way to the "perfect sketch" or "perfect painting" we are pretty happy allowing you, the community, to call it like you see it.

I've seen plenty of cheaters abandon their profile when enough people question the authenticity of their work. Hell, many try to file "slander" complaints with our staff but as long as you are not violating our Terms of Service with outlandish abuse or similar tactics we are more than happy to let you guys announce that you believe something isn't quite right with that all-too-perfect celebrity sketch.

Just check your facts and be civil about the whole thing.


In other news we know that for awhile there customer support tickets to CEA were suffering an unacceptable backlog and we've worked hard for almost the last month to reduce the backlog to something a bit more reasonable.

The whole team deserves quite a bit of thanks for slogging through hundreds of drama tickets and other issues been which should never brought into the support center to clear out a huge chunk from the backlog and speed up the response time.

It's still a work in progress but once we've got that firmly under control (keep your dArama in your Block lists plz) we'll be taking a look at doing something similar with Moderation reports.

We'll also be doing our yearly review of various policies and fine tuning them a bit to make certain that we're still pointed in the direction which we want to be heading so more on that in the future.


  • Mood: Content
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:iconeldris:
eldris Featured By Owner Oct 9, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
Sorry for replying on an older journal, just saw it.

One thing that really bugs me as both a photographer and photo manipulator is people who make photo manips then pass them off as photos. Granted, they have to be good to make them look realistic enough to get away with it, but they're not photos and shouldn't get credited as such.

I've seen one fairly popular "photographer" who I've reported many times, had many of his/her items removed, but he/she keeps getting away with it and tricking people into believing they are seeing photos.

Could dA perhaps do some statistical trackig of reports and sort of follow up if people are consistently getting reported for the same thing? I know the staff are busy, but I hate to see people getting tricked by mis-representation of art.
Reply
:iconpluto-from-below:
Pluto-from-Below Featured By Owner Sep 16, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
The only thing you could do about this, is make a ban on lying... which is quite frankly impossible to enforce. I don't really care that people make a paint/draw over, but lying about it is just sad. Hopefully the general public can make the decision to abandon these artists (and to not bother you guys to much with it).
Reply
:iconarisniam:
arisniam Featured By Owner Sep 11, 2010
I'm not aware if anyone has mentioned this already, but when it comes to painted over/manipulated works there could be a function, like a notice or a button on one side of the deviation page, that would work as a banner, saying that the work is probably not authentic or original.

The banner could be activated by the dA administration if valid notes have been submitted to them, bringing the matter to their attention.

As far as the vigilante flaming is considered, if a deviation is already marked as one of questionable origin/making, then flaming comments could be banned/flagged.
This would definitely create more work for the admins, and I can't suggest *exactly* how the flagging comments system could work, but I hope the idea helps.
Reply
:iconarisniam:
arisniam Featured By Owner Sep 14, 2010
I wouldn't call it an accusation, more like a questioning of authenticity. But I get your point.
Reply
:iconrealitysquared:
realitysquared Featured By Owner Sep 13, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
Unfortunately such a banner would be a bad idea due to the fact that nobody who wasn't present during the creation of the work could really say with 100% certainty that some sort of fraud is going on, and even if there is a little bit of doubt we want to absolutely avoid making any "official" accusations on that subject because it could be considered to be defamatory.
Reply
:iconbleedsopretty:
bleedsopretty Featured By Owner Sep 9, 2010
i kinda feel bad for people who do stuff like that. that they feel that in order to be respected or get any sort of attention on this site you have to have AMAZING drawings etc. so i guess they don't feel like they have any other choice perhaps? well and then of course you just have people doing it out of laziness ? anywayzz..

i missed your journals.. :heart:
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:iconrealitysquared:
realitysquared Featured By Owner Sep 10, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
That is sort of true- it's an unfortunate fact that far to many people are obsessed with the never-ending quest for attention and "popularity" and I suppose if you were that desperate or insecure cheating your way into being known as an "awesome" artist with photo-realism skills would probably seem to be a good idea at the time.

As far as my journals are concerned I'm going to try to write them a bit more often again - I spend a little too much time in the backroom areas around here and not enough time out front where people can see me :p
Reply
:iconsnowraven-moonstar:
SnowRaven-Moonstar Featured By Owner Sep 9, 2010   Writer
I admit to not really knowing a lot about this. My focus is writing not visual art and while I have certain training it is not the kind that woudl allow me to distinguish digitally altered work from that which is all done by hand so forgive me if anything i say shows my own ignorance.

I have a thought. Since it is possible to take photos and create a digitally made sketch to make it seem that it was done by hand would it also be possible for someone to manufacture "evidence" in the same way against someone if they have an axe to grind and want to ruin an artists reputation.

I've seen some appalling examples of vigilantism over the last half year or so and so this is why I wonder about it. I know that people wanting to look legitimate and not like someone with a beef or like someone on a witch-hunt will submit evidence against the person they believe are cheating and the like. i was just wondering if such evidence could be manufactured in a similar way to people manufacturing counterfeit progresses of supposed art pieces.


Another thing i've been thinking about for a while since I've started seeing various accusations of painting over photos and the like this last little while...is reworking old stories, specifically fanfiction. I often wonder how these people would feel about this or how writers might feel about it. Could these stories be considered the writer's version of painting over a photo or would it be given a bit more credit since even a genuine ff tries to be original if only in plot...and if the plot was original enough or far enough away from the original creator's idea and if the rewrite was chagned enough to not show the original source would it be considered cheating still or merely inspiration. I've wondered this for a while since I have old stories I've thought about rewriting but ended up only workign on in drips and drabs. It's just something I've been thinking about for a while. I thought i'd throw it out there and see if anyone had anything to say...
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:iconrealitysquared:
realitysquared Featured By Owner Sep 10, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
While I agree that it would be easy to manufacture "evidence" the problem with trying to do so is that you can't sneak the faked piece into someone elses gallery so it'd be a bit difficult to launch any sort of campaign against anyone when everything in that person's gallery is legitimate and you're hosting your faked somewhere else.

The most damning thing is when the accusations appear to be true because the faked work is actually in the accused person's gallery and they are actually making false claims about what it is that they've done.

As as vigilantism is concerned I am in complete agreement with you that certain segments of the community have tipped over the edge into loony, over-protective extremism - we are forced to reject the most ridiculous claims sometimes.

As far as reworking old ideas go, it's important to remember that for all intents and purposes originality is dead - just about everything has been done by someone by now. "Originality" is now best defined as something which is original to you and not deliberately copied from anywhere or anybody else.

Considering that there are no original ideas left, especially in fanfiction or other fan works since those genres are very narrow in scope and focus, it's to be expected that some works are going to appear very similar to another work - we in CEA see this all the time and it's not typically a problem as long as the differences outweigh the similarities by a good degree.
Reply
:iconsnowraven-moonstar:
SnowRaven-Moonstar Featured By Owner Sep 10, 2010   Writer
I can certainly see how difficult it would be to manufacture evidence and get it into another's gallery. What about making it seem that one peace was copied from another though? Art is referenced often enough. I would have to assume there are ways of telling thought software whether something ahs been referenced and done from scratch and when somethign has been painted over? I do appologize. I don't know much about digital art. All my history in art knowledge comes from more "traditional" forms of art. I dont' really know how most of these programs work for the most part.

I hate drama and vigilantism. I especially hate it when I get messaged personally with demands to stop watching one artist or another because they are "cheating" and what all. That happened to me recently. Thankfully the people who messaged me were fairly reasonable about leaving me alone when I told them to. I didn't even have to block them but it was still a little much. I dont' really agree with creating accounts for no other reason than to harass other artists but it seems to becomign more common...but maybe it's always been done and I've only just recently been made aware of it due to being drawn partly into the drama. I just don't understand it...especially since it's so easy to get people to believe something and so many just blithely jump on the band wagon without doing their homework. *shakes head* sorry...I didn't mean to go on a ramble about it.

Yes, that's mainly what I thought. There are only so many plots and conflicts and so there are bound to be similiarities. I've even read some (well known) series in which the references are fairly obvious though I imagine it was deliberate. I have just often thought about some of the better FF I worked on before I got more interested in original stories or started finding ways to take a plot idea and make it original without being a FF. Some of them were original enough that I've thought about reworking them but with all the current concerns about overpainting in art I did wonder if doing that woudl be the writer's version of overpainting and if it was cheating.

this makes me feel a little better about it though. It's still tricky to rework things though but perhaps I might go back and try working on it. :) Thank you so much for your reply. I always find your journals helpful and interesting. I appreciate it that you take the time to write these journals concerning policy and the like. There are a lot of people on DA who have a tendency to scream "unfair" when policy is enforced in their own galleries. I'm glad that you take the time to address some of teh conerns. :D take care.
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:iconrealitysquared:
realitysquared Featured By Owner Sep 13, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
Well, unfortunately vigilantism and drama mongering is something which is impossible to keep out of a community the size of deviantART; there are simply too many people spread out over too much virtual landscape to be able to expect that the community would keep the "small town" feel which we had ten years ago when deviantART was born.

Luckily we have plenty of systems and procedures in place which will counter most fraudulent claims before they really go any where at all.
Reply
:iconsnowraven-moonstar:
SnowRaven-Moonstar Featured By Owner Sep 18, 2010   Writer
i can imagine it's nigh impossible to police that sort of thing. At least people who make accounts just to harass others get taken care of pretty quick and those really are the worst in my humble opinion. :) I appreciate what you do though. That you take the time to create journals that explain policy and that sort of thing to people because there really are so many that get up in arms about things that they don't seem to fully understand and I have noticed that there are many and various people on DA who respond with knee jerk reactions to things without first takign the time to find out all the details. There really are just so many people here. I started off trying to brows all the artists the way I used to on other sites but I'm starting to think it's not possible. :XD:

I appreciate all that you have in place here. It must be a lot of work though for the moderators to deal with all that gones on here. :)
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:iconzananeichan:
zananeichan Featured By Owner Sep 9, 2010
Very much so, to actually draw /paint takes more time and effort than to shove a photo through a scripting filter to render it an illusion to appear as if it had been drawn or painted by hand. My latest painting had taken a month to complete(where as shoving a photo in a filter takes less than an hour or so), however would have been sooner if i had little or no detractions and dramas people toss at me.
But I feel people should be more compassionate and considerate and understand the "fake" artist's feelings and try help and develop and motivate them to draw by hand rather than demotivate them and put them off art completely. Never like the report button, since it creates a big brother society of ignorant tosspots..:-(
Much Love annd huggles.
:heart: :love: :hug:
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:iconxmarleauxx:
XMarleauxX Featured By Owner Sep 9, 2010
We have a comparable problem over in Digital Dolls where people make Bases from traced artwork. It's terrible that it's allowed but understandable that nothing can be done without the original creator. I think the simple solution would be to do as you have stated up there, Don't fave them.
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:icondarkjediprincess:
DarkJediPrincess Featured By Owner Sep 9, 2010  Student Digital Artist
I wish we could :+fav: journals. :XD:

I never got the point of "cheating" using Photoshop filters. The results don't even look like the intended medium most of the time! (Not to me, at least.)
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:iconrealitysquared:
realitysquared Featured By Owner Sep 9, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
I agree.

The filters used by these programs are mathematical so the resulting pen strokes, brush strokes and shading never look the way an actual piece of traditional art comes out.

Anyone with a decent eye and a little experience will be able to recognize a fake.
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:icondarkjediprincess:
DarkJediPrincess Featured By Owner Sep 10, 2010  Student Digital Artist
I only ever use 3 or 4 filters, which are Gaussian Blur, Emboss, Add Noise, and Render Clouds, and I only use them for special effects :paranoid: The rest of them just don't look that good to me.

And it's much more satisfying to finish something freehand as well ;)
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:iconrealitysquared:
realitysquared Featured By Owner Sep 13, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
I have to agree with you on finishing something freehand; I seldom relay on any sort of "raw" filtering effect in my works simply because they always come out looking so 'processed' to me, so whenever I do use them I almost always fidget with the results.
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:icontmpst24myst:
tmpst24myst Featured By Owner Sep 9, 2010  Student Writer
Welcome back to journaling. :)

I'm glad to read this and the faith you have in the community to respond diplomatically in case you have outline here. I sometimes sketch a picture myself. I've not posted anything due to my fear of being "called out" for creating something that is very close to the real thing, but isn't. I will spend hours into days eying a photo or picture but I draw freehand. I'm even getting better with my pencils, which one work better for what ever I'm drawing atm. Maybe I'll post something one day. :shrug: But this was a lesson learned when I was in grade six. I had drawn a picture of Garfield* for art class and I won first place. My best friend told the teacher she watched me trace it from a book I had at home. She never in all the years I knew her, ever at my house. The picture I used as reference was a 2x3 comic and my picture took up half a sheet of bristle board. I was centered in front of my classmates and stripped of placing at all. A letter was sent home to my parents etc. The whole thing blew up because my friend was jealous that I could draw - period. After that, I gave up drawing like I used to. I was horrified because of the negative attention and the teachers believed her. It escalated higher until I was half heartedly cleared of plagiarism and apologies were made in the last week of school, seven months after the fact. I mean, who cares right? I know I didn't do anything wrong however the problems it caused for me and it really impacted my grades and I was 11. It followed me to a new school I had transferred to for a French program. It's in my permanent file because the highly respected teacher who stood by my friend, was another art teacher who simply didn't like me and refused to retract the plagiarism claim against me.

I've told this story here in hope that people read it and consider their claims and take the time to get the facts before they call someone out for something like this. While we're not being graded here in a school environment, saying something like this can affect the rest of someones drawing career. If they are simply tracing, then speak your mind with tact. Take the time to gather facts and if what you find is inconclusive, then probably leave it alone.

My apologies for hijacking your journal, it just seemed to be the appropriate place to write about it. -Dae.
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:iconrealitysquared:
realitysquared Featured By Owner Sep 9, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
Not a problem :P

Your story actually reminds me of one thing I remember from when I first started elementary school - The class were all given line art of an elephant and we were told to color it in and then bring them up to the front of the class and share it before having some free time.

I was the last person finished because I took the time to lightly shade it with a black crayon so that it had a good shade of gray - it was the best way to get closest to the natural coloring given the limited number of primary colors available.

Half the class didn't believe that I had used a black crayon and I was accused of using a pencil instead.

I don't remember how it all came out but I do remember the incident due to how upset it made me to be accused of something I didn't do.
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:iconiconicimagery:
IconicImagery Featured By Owner Sep 9, 2010  Professional Writer
Great post and I agree with most of it.

But: "Just check your facts and be civil about the whole thing."

Therein lies the big problem and not just on dA...

The people getting *really* worked up in a rather trolling-like frenzy rarely check the facts and most certainly aren't civil. Many are quite ill-informed about legitimate art traditions like Matte Painting which *does* incorporate photographic and 3D elements to achieve greater realsim. I've seen many deviants who don't even realise that you *can* do that for a legitimate living.

"As far as "catching" people taking digital shortcuts and cheating your way to the "perfect sketch" or "perfect painting" we are pretty happy allowing you, the community, to call it like you see it.

I've seen plenty of cheaters abandon their profile when enough people question the authenticity of their work. Hell, many try to file "slander" complaints with our staff but as long as you are not violating our Terms of Service with outlandish abuse or similar tactics we are more than happy to let you guys announce that you believe something isn't quite right with that all-too-perfect celebrity sketch."


I've seen quite a few legitimately talented well-known artists (in the industry full-stop) hounded from dA (and elsewhere) because their detractors took *one* person's word for the supposed infraction - and that person happened to be a mutual (former) friend with an axe to grind who had an extensive history of harassment based on obsession which turned nasty when he was rebuffed. I was told in one specific instance after contacting the artist directly in private, about a situation that had gotten too far out of hand, that of the dozens of people spamming them and anyone who replied in support of them - that I was the *only* one who actually took the time to check things out from all sides and who really understood what was going on.

Sad.

Unfortunately most people aren't going to take the time it takes to research thoroughly and come to a truly balanced, well-informed conclusion. And thus the dramas will continue.
Reply
:iconsnowraven-moonstar:
SnowRaven-Moonstar Featured By Owner Sep 9, 2010   Writer
I won't throw any names into the mix but I'm just curious if this incident you are talking about was recent. I was witness to an instance of an artist being hounded off the site AND had to put up with more than one person personally messaging me asking me to stop watching the artist as they did not deserve the support. I was just wondering if it was the same instance. In this case I also tried to find out the truth of what was going on but had no idea where to start so decided to take my own approach which was more of a "watch and wait and reserve judgment" approach. I was just wondering if it might be the same incident or another example of rabid vigilantism gone out of control and turned into trolling and other ugliness that, no matter what was true or not, was really (in my opinion) way beyond the bounds of what is appropriate.
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:iconiconicimagery:
IconicImagery Featured By Owner Sep 9, 2010  Professional Writer
Yep - it was recent.
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:iconsnowraven-moonstar:
SnowRaven-Moonstar Featured By Owner Sep 9, 2010   Writer
Then it's probably the same incident I'm thinking of. :) Thanks.
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:iconrealitysquared:
realitysquared Featured By Owner Sep 9, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
The type of mistakes which you talk about here are the main reason I tend to issue a personal warning to the various "vigilante" style Groups which spring up here and there about making public accusations.

While we're generally fine with the community self-policing itself we don't tolerate organized harassment very well and we dislike seeing people hounded due to mistaken information being spread around so we do check into the claims.

It is sad that drama and exaggerated overreaction is so ingrained in the community.
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:iconjeriweaver:
jeriweaver Featured By Owner Sep 8, 2010  Professional Traditional Artist
:iconbravoplz:
Paintovers are a joke.
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:iconvsconcepts:
VSConcepts Featured By Owner Sep 8, 2010  Professional Interface Designer
I'd really love a more comprehensive FAQ for Stock usage. Something which clearly delineates what IS and is NOT stock, and provides the FAQ reader, an immediate perfunctory understanding and grasp of how that relates to the work they submit on deviantART. What's sad about that is that I'm not even the Stock GM. I just get sick of looking at Wallpapers that contain images that the artist announces publicly "I found on Google". And then, when you slap their work in TinEye, and you realize JUST how blatant their disregard for other artist's rights are... You MUST send a ticket in for review.
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:icondazza1008:
dazza1008 Featured By Owner Sep 8, 2010
re: the second section, I still think it's not obvious enough - it says 'Please refer to the FAQ Library as many of your inquiries may already be answered there.' but I think it would be better if there was a link to particular FAQs on the contact page or a link that said "issues that you shouldn't contact the help desk about" in big letters.

And yes, well done getting through the repetitive dArama issues without going insane. :clap: (or too insane <3 )
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:iconrealitysquared:
realitysquared Featured By Owner Sep 8, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
Unfortunately those messages are just generic- the system has no way to know what you are asking about so it's really impossible to tailor a response to direct you to an exact FAQ for your issue (if one existed).

It'd be great if that could work though ;)
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:icondazza1008:
dazza1008 Featured By Owner Sep 8, 2010
I didn't mean that - I just meant link directly to those few FAQs which are relevant to the majority of 'dud' help desk tickets e.g. "block people, don't contact the help desk".

It's different to the "popular FAQs" section because that's what people actually click on - you guys should have a "most ignored FAQs" section ;)
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:iconrealitysquared:
realitysquared Featured By Owner Sep 8, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
"Most Ignored FAQ"

:lmao: That could be a long list
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:iconshadowmaker-241:
ShadowMaker-241 Featured By Owner Sep 8, 2010  Hobbyist Writer
Really!? :lol:
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:iconrealitysquared:
realitysquared Featured By Owner Sep 9, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
Trust me- I oversee CEA as well as some customer support issues and the list of things which generally people don't know about our FAQ system and policies is very, very long.

:p
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:iconshadowmaker-241:
ShadowMaker-241 Featured By Owner Sep 9, 2010  Hobbyist Writer
Wow lol
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:iconirenelangholm:
IreneLangholm Featured By Owner Sep 8, 2010  Professional Digital Artist
I loathe the sketch filter and I loathe the fractal filter even more.
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:icondazza1008:
dazza1008 Featured By Owner Sep 8, 2010
Wow - didn't know it existed! :omfg:
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:iconirenelangholm:
IreneLangholm Featured By Owner Sep 8, 2010  Professional Digital Artist
Now you know. It irks me when people are in awe of these when in reality you can make one in 20 seconds.
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:icondazza1008:
dazza1008 Featured By Owner Sep 8, 2010
Well... I think it should be clearly mentioned in the description that it was used. It would royally piss me off if it were passed for a regular fractal that someone built from the ground up.
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:iconirenelangholm:
IreneLangholm Featured By Owner Sep 8, 2010  Professional Digital Artist
Some of them are, but for people who are not familiar with photoshop or the filter will be fantastically impressed. lol
Makes me sad.
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:icondazza1008:
dazza1008 Featured By Owner Sep 8, 2010
Yeah :(
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:iconwdwparksgal:
WDWParksGal Featured By Owner Sep 8, 2010
I make a lot of reports to the help desk. Just to make sure I'm not wasting my time, should I NOT make a report if a deviant has posted a Disney Animated Screenshot because I'm not the owner of the ? I come across a lot of these types of deviations that come through the Disney Groups I help admin... and the deviants usually have the audacity to pass off the screenshots as their own "art".

I have seen a rash of the "art" you have mentioned in the journal lately. A new deviant I saw as I passed through the "newest" page, posted a bazillion pictures that had obviously been run through PhotoShop to make them look like traditional drawings then posted them saying she "drew" them :roll:

It is good to know dA is aware of these issues. Usually I don't say anything to the deviant but just make a report. Perhaps now, I'll just mention to the deviant the work looks suspect.
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:icondazza1008:
dazza1008 Featured By Owner Sep 8, 2010
I report screenshots too (being a mod of a Naruto club) - R2 is talking about manipulating something. Screenshots don't involve manipulating, and therefore are a direct violation of copyright.
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:iconwdwparksgal:
WDWParksGal Featured By Owner Sep 8, 2010
And I report a bazillion of them, especially screenshots of celebrities that have been manipulated into an alleged "wallpaper" or "collage"! There still seems to be a gray area, though, as the original photographer or animated artist is STILL the owner of the works.... so, wouldn't that mean the originator would have to do the reporting versus the third-party deviant? This issue can be confusing.
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:icondazza1008:
dazza1008 Featured By Owner Sep 8, 2010
*oh, I assumed you used the "report deviation" link on the deviation, rather than putting in a help desk ticket.
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:iconwdwparksgal:
WDWParksGal Featured By Owner Sep 9, 2010
I am... I use the "report deviation" link.... I guess I just lump everything together and refer to the "help desk" when I'm actually making a report directly in.

I make a lot of miscat reports, too, especially in stock and avatars/icons since I deal a lot with same through my stock site and the groups I admin. It could be that dA has just become SO large it is becoming difficult to "police". dA is a wonderful community and I just like to see things running smoothly.
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:icondazza1008:
dazza1008 Featured By Owner Sep 9, 2010
Good on ya ;) Maybe if you became a gallery mod, you could do it yourself! :lol: (but in all fairness, that would be more time, and it's nice when people take care to make sure dA is clean)
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:icondazza1008:
dazza1008 Featured By Owner Sep 8, 2010
The question is - do any of your reports become invalidated? If they're all accepted and the deviation is removed, then you're doing the right thing.
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:iconwdwparksgal:
WDWParksGal Featured By Owner Sep 9, 2010
Most of the time I "unclick" the notify box. I get SO many notes and comments the last thing I need is notification of how a report was solved. At one time I did get reports back and most of them came back as validated. I do try and be fair and careful with my reporting.
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:iconrealitysquared:
realitysquared Featured By Owner Sep 8, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
Generally speaking we vastly prefer claims of infringement to be filed by the copyright owners or their legal representatives and deviantART Customer Support (e.g. the helpdesk) is set up only to handle those claims.

As a member of deviantART you can use the moderation systems "report deviation" link on deviation pages to draw the attention of the staff to certain deviations. bear in mind though that our staff probably won't delete based on a third party report but if you can raise enough doubt about the submitting artist having proper permission then our staff will most likely require proof of permission.

Also, like it or not, third party reports are currently at a lower priority level so don't expect to see any results for your reporting efforts right away.
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:iconwdwparksgal:
WDWParksGal Featured By Owner Sep 9, 2010
Oh, geesh. I can easily make a hundred reports a week. A good part of those are miscat reports or mature tag requests... a few actual "porn" deviations (that I only saw because they lacked a mature tag and could be seen in the "newest" or "popular" categories at sign-in), but quite a few are celebrity pictures taken right off the Internet and used in "wallpapers or collages".

I have always been very careful about my own postings, considering my daughter warn me five years ago when I finally got my own site, that I couldn't even post any of my scrapbooking pages because I had used some cutouts from magazines, outside of my own art and materials.

And I got the threat of the "ban hammer" from, *cough* you *cough* when inadvertently posting submissions at #DisneyDreamers that were traced art. At the time I wrote and explained it was a club and I certainly didn't post them on purpose (it looked real enough to me at the time ~ I have since learned how to tell tracings since) and you kindly informed me that I was ultimately responsible for what was posted in the club. That is what caused my daughter and I to remove all the deviations from the gallery and start using feature journals, at least a year before the group concept was introduced.

What it boils down to is this: Am I wasting my time using the "report deviation" service when reporting screenshots even when I have 357 results on TinEye to allegedly "prove" a deviation is a screenshot (whether it is Disney Animation or a photo of a celebrity)? I do know you had said at one time that even if the picture has been posted on a bazillion sites that still doesn't mean it is "proof" of an alleged theft of copyright (I usually try and link to websites that post the original pictures, if the report is of a celebrity, like People Magazine or EW).
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